Similar images - how to upload and how much is too much
posted on 2nd of september, 2009
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Very often, good images are refused based on similarity issues. Contributors submit technically perfect (and usually sellable) images and get frustrated when they are refused. Imagine a boy laughing photographed. One image should be enough, not ten of them. No matter if the photographer moved 2 meters to the left, the concept is still the same. Similar images in Dreamstime's acceptance represent the content that fits a single concept, has small variations in composition OR model expression. Usually it's the kind of content where the designer/buyer can choose any image from that series without changing the visual message of his design. This issue happens more often at studio images but applies for any kind of subject. Price wise, this kind of series will generate a single credit sale and more subscription sales. Subscription buyers will download more images "just in case", although in the end they will use just one. The more images you have on the same subject, the more difficult will be for the buyer to browse among them. Also, it will take way more time for an image to reach higher pricing levels. If you have 5 similars they will all require 25 downloads. Unless one image stands out, you will sell at a better royalty after 25 downloads, as opposed to 5. For the average contributor that's several months more. Even if one image stands out, its sales will be eroded by the others. Who wants to pay 14 credits for that image when they can get one for 5? Be extremely self-selective: 1. Select the best shots to keep in your camera, delete the rest right from the shooting session 2. Once they're on your hard drive, select only the best shots and post-process them. Apply all your knowledge about their sales potential vs. concept, composition and lighting. Cut once and cut deep! 3. Select the best images from the enhanced ones and submit them. 4. Once the images are in your unfinished files, take a look at them at the thumbnail size. This is the most important step. It will show you the images just as the buyer sees them. They don't get to see the image at 100%, therefore remove all files that are not clean and sending their visual message FAST to the buyer. After the steps above you should have 2-3 strong images for every 100 images you shoot on the same subject. Don't take these figures literally, photographers with good skills will shoot way less. Still, be very selective on what you submit. One exception we do encourage is to submit a portrait/landscape version. VERY important: similar images used to pass review in the past, because they were submitted at similar dates. Do that only if you have a very strong image in your portfolio (a level 5) and submit only one more similar (or else you will just erode the popular one). The review system takes into account similars uploaded in the past and the technique described above will bring you refusals. Submit all your similars in a single batch. Even if you're worried about seeing some refusals (ALL contributors receive them), at least the editor will be able to select the best ones.
- Read Andrei's article here for more on the same subject Similarity: Thin line between smart and excessive... - Don't forget to play Stock Rank. Try to go over 75-80%. You'll play a lot. Ask yourself how many similars did you see.
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Tags: acceptance images similar similarity tips
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Comments (44)
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Thank you so much, Red, for taking the time to answer and explain my concern and questions. I now understand a little more of the images that work and the ones that don't--not to mention the why's behind it all. With this new information I realize I need to re-evaluate my goals in selling my photography and see if they match what dreamstime can provide me with. Thank you again so much! I sincerely appreciate it! - posted by
Z71redroot
on September 27, 2009 |
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Just curious how you'd comment this portfolio which all consists of huge series of similar images. - posted by
Julia161
on September 27, 2009 |
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If I may offer an opinion... Fine Art Photography and Stock Photography differ greatly. Commercial stock photographs are used in ads, promotional brochures, posters, etc. that advertise and/or endorse products or services. Travel, landscape, nature photos are not big sellers in the world of stock photography. Yes, your images may be beautiful but can they sell a product, an idea, a current trend? How can clouds be used in a marketing campaign? Much of commercial stock is contemporary and cutting edge - advertisers are always looking for that next big idea. Business images sell well. Have you played the Stock Rank Game to see what sells?
Regarding your images that have been accepted - there are 1,965 images of bulldogs, is yours special? There are 12,172 images of tulips and 114,925 sunsets. What sets your images apart from all those others? You have an image simply titled "Single Pink Blossom" with only 10 general keywords,... (More) - posted by
Red
on September 26, 2009 |
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Archilles....I am new to this site. I have always been told by strangers, family, and friends that I should sell my photos. I do landscape, animals, and intense cloud formations. I was excited to join Dreamstime...but after receiving a refusal for more than 50 images that have been noted excellent by locals, I have spent hours crying and wondering if I missed the boat somehow and if I have any talent at all. I don't understand or comprehend half of the refusal reason, and I feel like just giving up and deleting my account. I have loved photography for more than 20 years...But now I feel like I have been wasting my time. I know you are extremely busy...but your input would be so helpful! I am blind to the path lying before me..and quite frankly my heart is broken! - posted by
Z71redroot
on September 26, 2009 |
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Archilles....I am new to this site. I have always been told by strangers, family, and friends that I should sell my photos. I do landscape, animals, and intense cloud formations. I was excited to join Dreamstime...but after receiving a refusal for more than 50 images that have been noted excellent by locals, I have spent hours crying and wondering if I missed the boat somehow and if I have any talent at all. I don't understand or comprehend half of the refusal reason, and I feel like just giving up and deleting my account. I have loved photography for more than 20 years...I live, breathe, eat, and sleep photography! But now I feel like I have been wasting my time. I know you are extremely busy...but your input would be so helpful! I am blind to the path lying before me..and quite frankly my heart is broken! - posted by
Z71redroot
on September 26, 2009 |
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@Achilles - What about black and white versions of an image, are these considered "similar" images? - posted by
Sgcallaway1994
on September 18, 2009 |
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Few times I was requested to post more images from the same shoot (20 more). Dreamstime is by far my favourite site, but I had to look for another place to upload all the images that allowed clients per image download. Those images always sell in series. I cannot say if the same person downloads them or not, but the site is making money. I agree about low quality images that look the same - delete, but there must be some kind of option for series of hi-quality. Thank you, in either way, for a great site. - posted by
Lvnel
on September 15, 2009 |
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How about different approach.
What about submitting stack of previews of similar images?
My problem is simple. Sometimes I have similar of images from shoot and I have no idea which one is going to sell. I cannot submit them all and let inspector decide – I just don’t have enough time to retouch them all.
On the other hand why would you waist inspectors’ resources on this?
So idea of solution may be:
Photographer submits 1-2 images. As soon as they are accepted photographer may submit previews of additional similar images (200px on long side) Inspectors wouldn’t check quality at all, just the fact that images are similar to those already accepted.
Now, when customer goes into details of image there would be option to see all submitted similar previews. If buyer really wants particular variation, there will be option to request this image. Then photographer get automatic e-mail, prepares this image and upload it. At this moment inspector checks quality issues and if image... (More) - posted by
Mocker
on September 13, 2009 |
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Thank you, very useful. Good baseline. O course, plenty of debate about exceptions to the rule and what is simular. I do think with Dreamstimes branding they are correct on keeping similars down more.
I find that adding one or two similars after an image has helped and adding over 3 similars to a popular waters down the "Value" and kills sales. "Can't be that great, there are dozens just like it".
Don't compete against yourself... only improve. - posted by
Truelight9
on September 11, 2009 |
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We considered this option, but technically it would be difficult to implement.
Not only that, but how do you add them to a stack?
Automatically= too difficult.
Editors= affects review time & pending line.
Contributors=unsafe (some will add them, some not).
If we rely on keywording to generate the stack there are many different images that are keyworded the same. They will all be under a single stack.
The solution could work for a much smaller database.
Our engine already takes into account similarity, we don't want to reinvent anything. It's up to you if you want to submit them (but face risks of refusals). - posted by
Achilles
on September 10, 2009 |
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It would be cool if a compromise of having an image stack could be used. Instead of submitting multiple distinct images you submit a series with the 'best' image as the top of the stack (maybe submitting a single image first, then adding to the stack after approval). DT could treat the whole stack as the single top image for searches, pricing, etc. but still give the buyer the flexibility of purchasing any image within the stack (for the overall stack's level). If you are exclusive DT could pay you for one image (not for each image in the stack). This would maximize revenue for a series, and make it easy for buyer to see other shots from a shoot. Note that I'm not suggesting you stack a whole shoot, just those selects similar enough that they really represent alternate poses or angles. Kind of like how the model images work - you see a single image that you can click on to bring up all images for that model. The difference would be that the images behind the stack would not appear... (More) - posted by
Logoboom
on September 10, 2009 |
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Some good points Achilles - or perhaps we should call you Pandora, as you seem to have opened the box! It's good to put a limit on "similar" photos from the same shoot with the same model(s) in the same/similar poses as it's far too boring wading through them all sometimes...... - posted by
Melonstone
on September 04, 2009 |
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Thanks dude! Very helpful - I never actually thought of looking at the thumbnail. I've been trying to select only the 'best' ones from shoots but it is sometimes really hard, so I get my wife to pick out the best ones after I filtered them down to the technically best ones. - posted by
Vatikaki
on September 04, 2009 |
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Very useful blog! - posted by
Linqong
on September 03, 2009 |
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I totally agree with cutting out the doubles in your portfolio. You prune your trees to encourage new growth and fruit/flowers. I can't think of anything worse for a buyer than wading through pages and pages of the same image from very slightly different angles. I say prune your doubles and watch your portfolio grow and bloom in the new light. Great blog! Thank you :0) PS. Also doesn't 2,255 images in a portfolio with 14,327 sales look great when a buyer is checking out your portfolio. (Check out Achilles images to sales ratio) It looks so much better than the other way around because of doubles and similar images. Cheers - posted by
Wildmac
on September 03, 2009 |
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thanks for the advice, very useful,
cheers ::) fran - posted by
Frantab01
on September 03, 2009 |
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I'm very pleased to read this. It will be so much easier to search when not having to get through near doubles.
Although I do almost exclusively illustration, I did study photography in Art School. I see the difference now being editing...just as mentioned. Before-when film was used-the photographer did editing even BEFORE snapping the shutter. I remember then it being good if a good photograper got a couple of worthwhile shots from a roll of 24. Now a days I hear of good photographers who take 1000's of shots in one photo session. That, to me, is mind boggling.
I think Achilles has it right and that images should be deleted right in camera. That preview is about what a customer will see when browsing and anything that is compositionally not nice should go because we can assume that the photograper has the shots technically correct already and won't need to perform all of the magic out of camera.
I just wanted to offer my support here to Dreamstime - I'm happy this is now... (More) - posted by
Pixel-pizzazz
on September 03, 2009 |
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A helpful blog to give me pause and scrutinize images for quality vs. quantity when uploading. Personally, I get so enthusiastic about great shots it is very difficult to choose just a few; perhaps like a parent choosing a favorite child? In addition, I strongly agree with others that say, “Don’t delete in the camera! “, I like to view a photo numerous times at full size before axing it. As stated, the blog is helpful to encourage me to examine my work more closely before uploading, thank you for taking the time to create it. - posted by
Marilyngould
on September 03, 2009 |
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thanks a lot for your blog it's very very useful - posted by
Aitan75
on September 03, 2009 |
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very useful!!!!THX!!! - posted by
Defun
on September 02, 2009 |
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Just don't be so rutheless with self editing that you forget to submit both a horizontal and a vertical of the shot. Print tends to want vertical shots, but if you send only a horizontal the buyer may never visualize your photo on the cover of their magazine.
And oh, god, NEVER delete in the camera! Not to mention, you shouldn't be chimping at every single shot. - posted by
Pixart
on September 02, 2009 |
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yes, i agree with you Photoshow. many times the images i thought were wasted editing at the time of shoot, ended up as my best images when viewed 100%.
in fact, i now use a larger mem card for this reason. so i don't have to delete to recover storage space during a shoot. i now back up everything and leave my editing to a little later. dvd's are so cheap, it's not even a consideration of savings.
finally, good point. many images not meant for microstock still find their way into my portfolio for other usage ie. gallery, graphics post processing ,etc.. - posted by
Tan510jomast
on September 02, 2009 |
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Useful blog but I have to disagree with deleting from camera. One can never tell the true quality of an image from the 2-3" LCD screen of a digital camera.
In fact to me deleting anything is a mistake. Just because it won't work for me in my Dreamstime Collection today does not mean that there wont be a new market for an image somewhere else tomorrow. There are more image markets in the world then just microstock. If we restrict our vision to only microstock we restrict our potential to earn over the long haul. - posted by
Photoshow
on September 02, 2009 |
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Good reminder to control my OCD! But I don't like to make the decisions..... - posted by
Noonie
on September 02, 2009 |
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@Achilles why You at DT are always talk about frustration? Strange.
I'm not and i dont care, i give ideas - feedback.
And these are very SIMILAR to what @Bradcalkins (me earlier at forum) and some others wrote.
There are better ways of enhancing the gallery (e.g. grouping or reorganizing similar) than rejecting particular images.
By similar i mean VARIANTS and not some trivial change of an angle, color or something like that. Cause i don't upload similar - just variants. Anyway EOT for me. - posted by
Rangpl
on September 02, 2009 |
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It would be cool if a compromise of having an image stack could be used. Instead of submitting multiple distinct images you submit a series with the 'best' image as the top of the stack (maybe submitting a single image first, then adding to the stack after approval). DT could treat the whole stack as the single top image for searches, pricing, etc. but still give the buyer the flexibility of purchasing any image within the stack (for the overall stack's level). If you are exclusive DT could pay you for one image (not for each image in the stack). This would maximize revenue for a series, and make it easy for buyer to see other shots from a shoot. Note that I'm not suggesting you stack a whole shoot, just those selects similar enough that they really represent alternate poses or angles. Kind of like how the model images work - you see a single image that you can click on to bring up all images for that model. The difference would be that the images behind the stack would not appear... (More) - posted by
Bradcalkins
on September 02, 2009 |
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Nobody asked you to change your point of view. Not even the submissions. Some contributors let the reviwer decide which one is best. But don't get frustrated if you see more refusals. Less similars will increase your approval ratio, that's the whole point of this article - posted by
Achilles
on September 02, 2009 |
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@Achilles : "Contributors submit technically perfect (and usually sellable) images and get frustrated when they are refused."
I think other microstock sites aren't frustrated when people upload these there.
:) So i stick with my point of view. - posted by
Rangpl
on September 02, 2009 |
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Is very difficult to be selective with your own work but you are right the editors know what sells and what not.
Thank you for great article - posted by
Sanshams
on September 02, 2009 |
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:) I have to agree, few but really good images is better! - posted by
Ashestosky
on September 02, 2009 |
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Comments (44) |
This article has been read 2917 times. 18 readers have found this article useful.
Photo credits: Kirill Roslyakov. |
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Serban Enache
(Achilles)
Bucharest, RO
Graduate of "Ion Mincu" University of Architecture and Town Planning with a specialization in Representation & Interior Design Studies. Creative and Managing Director for Archiweb since 1997. Dreamstime's CEO since 2000. I'm in charge with the main business development of Dreamstime. If you need assistance you can contact me via support or by leaving a comment to one of my images.
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